QSOS Interview with Houa Yang

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Mai Yang, Houa Yang’s mother, with her traditional Hmong embroidered paj ntaub piece.

[interview begins as Houa’s mother in-law, Mai Yang, is showing some of the Hmong embroidery she is working on.]

Houa Yang (HY): This is what she does in her free time, embroidery. It’s like cross-stitch, but this is Hmong cross-stitch. When she is done, she makes it really nice and puts coins like that to it. You wear it around like this for the money bag. Have you seen that?

Heather Gibson (HG): Yes. So these are in process?

HY: Yes.

HG: How does she choose the colors?

HY: These are mainly Hmong colors. I never asked my mom, but Hmong colors are always bright green, bright red, blue, yellow. Really, really bright. So I think she has just stayed with the traditional colors.

HG: Does she buy her threads here?

HY: No. Unfortunately they don’t have this kind of thread here. [speaks to Mai Yang in Hmong.] These were exported from Thailand. I don’t know who sent it to her sister, but her sister sent it to her from Minnesota. So that’s how she got it.

HG: What about the car ornaments?

HY: [Mai Yang has brought out ornaments for hanging on the rear-view mirror of a car.] These are hers. One of her nephews sent them from Laos. What they do to earn a living is they make these and they sent it to us, to her mainly, to help sell them. So this is how they earn their living.

HG: Where do they get sold?

HY: At craft fairs. Sometimes neighbors buy them, friends buy them. They would be like ten dollars. That would be their rice money for food that they need to buy. [Mai Yang speaks to Houa in Hmong.] She says all these are made by hand.

HG: Are these made by men or women?

HY: [speaks to Mai Yang in Hmong.] Her nephew sews. He’s learned to sew, draw and make a lot of the paj ntaub they send here. A lot of the men are learning how to do anything they can do to make a living.

HG: Are they in Laos or Thailand?

HY: They are Hmong in Laos.

HG: Have they come back from Thailand, or had they never left?

HY: They were in Thailand, but they were forced to go back to Laos. This is the most recent that they have sent.

HG: Do you have one in your car?

HY: No I don’t. I guess I’m more of an Americanized Hmong. I don’t like a lot of the colors like this. But a lot of people do. I like more neutral colors. I have this thing with color coordination. They’re very beautiful. I would have to order it in my colors.

HG: So does your mom sew mostly for costume?

HY: Yes, she sews mostly for costume for family. A lot of the things she made she would say, ‘This is for you to keep to remember me by.’ She doesn’t do the paj ntaub like the piece I made into a pillow. [Houa holds up a story cloth.] She doesn’t do these, although she has done it before. These are mainly for sale, like Pang Xiong has.

HG: Is there a specific meaning behind the design she is making?

HY: [Houa speaks to Mai Yang in Hmong.] She says there is no meaning. Her parents and their parents have always done this pattern. They have passed it down to her. Like this, I know it is an elephant print.

HG: Has she ever made story cloths?

HY: [Houa speaks to Mai Yang in Hmong.] She has done it before, but now she doesn’t do that.

HG: Can you ask her what she enjoys most in sewing?

HY: She enjoys doing these. [Houa points to a pink Hmong costume piece with coins.] She also does some quilts. She appliqués. When she’s done with it, I put it together and I quilt it. It’s more like a family business.

HG: This is for sale?

HY: Yes, this is for sale. It is extra income.

HG: Where are they sold?

HY: They are sold through quilt shops or sometimes just through people that see them and like them, or people we know. Mostly they’re sold in quilt shops.

HG: Do you ever incorporate paj ntaub in them?

HY: We have never done that, but I’ve seen it done. Not paj ntaub with the American quilt, but what I’ve seen is they make this and they make it really big and they do sashes and triangles and they make it into a really big quilt. I’ve seen that done. It’s pretty nice, too.

HG: I’ve seen a couple that Pang Xiong has done, but no others.

HY: [Mai Yang speaks to Houa and shows a quilt block with a rooster.] We’re making roosters. They are very, very popular among people that collect roosters. Here is one where I cut it and pin it together, then she sews it, then I would give her some money to help her. This is what she’s working on.

HG: Beautiful.

HY: You know the Lone Star? [holding up different appliquéd quilt block.] The Lone Star has corners and triangles. This is combining piecing with appliqué. So this is one of the squares in the Lone Star. This is one of my sister-in-law’s.

HG: That’s beautiful. Are the patterns purchased?

HY: I think what she did was she purchased a pattern and she moves it around and makes it her own. I don’t think this is the original pattern. She would get a flower from the pattern. I think she bought this at the Host Quilt Show they have here every year. She bought that there and she likes the flower and she comes up with ideas.

HG: Oh, the Lancaster Quilt Show. I have been there.

HY: Yes, she got the pattern there. [Mai Yang speaks to Houa in Hmong. Houa holds up another rooster block.] These are my roosters and I’ve done a big rooster quilt with many different roosters. They are more like collector’s items. This is what she’s working on for me.

HG: Wonderful. She enjoys the animal pattern?

HY: Yes, she likes that. [Mai Yang speaks to Houa in Hmong.] She says of all the chickens this is the hardest to do.

HG: Why is that?

HY: Because of the many pieces. She says because of the many pieces.

HG: I love the leopard print fabric.

HY: I have the pattern for this, but it’s very hard to find the colors and cutting it and putting it together and making sure it comes out right. This is what she’s making.

HG: So you choose your own patterns?

HY: If you work for a particular quilter where they have their own stores, or where a person makes a lot of stuff, they give you the fabric and the pattern. What I’m doing now is that I see something that I like and I also look at what people are buying. Combining that together and coming up with something like this.

HG: For your mother, would doing this type of appliqué remind her of doing paj ntaub?

Yang with quilt using traditional Hmong techniques.

HY: Oh yes, I think because of the paj ntaub she’s able to do this. Like for myself, learning to sew paj ntaub and coming to this it’s not hard. So it’s like in our background. Why don’t we start with the paj ntaub? My mom gave this is one that she made. My mom does things like this for Pang Xiong. We lived close by to each other so they were pretty close. Whenever Pang Xiong had a meal she needed help with my mom would go help her with the meal. Or whenever she’s cooking a new dish and she learns it from Pang Xiong. She comes and cooks it for us. There is one particular dish, it’s more like a soup, a chicken coconut soup, and I just can’t make it like my mom. I forgot to ask her for the recipe. I asked Pang Xiong if she can give me the recipe because my mom made it and I can’t duplicate it. [holding up block of paj ntaub.] My mom made these for her. I remember a girl embroidering these for my mom. She would put this on it. This is one she made.

HG: I’ve never seen one with this type of embroidery around the border. Is that typical or an innovation?

HY: I think it’s probably an innovation. Like this, we have done it before in our clothing. I think we had a table when I was growing up and it had this design on it. She really liked the design and she incorporated it. But it’s just an extension of the elephant feet. [Mai Yang speaks to Houa in Hmong and points to photographs.] She says a lot of the sewing that she does will become costume.

HG: Is this for a New Year?

HY: Yes, for New Year, for weddings and special celebrations.

HG: Who is in this picture?

HY: These are my nieces, her grandchildren. This is more of the newer, not too new, but this is what the young people wear.

HG: Were they made by your mother?

HY: Yes. [tape is shut off while taking photograph of image. when tape resumes, Houa is talking about how she received a piece by her mother.] I lived the closest so I was the first one to get to choose out of those three so I chose that. This is very old. I don’t know when she made that. It’s a sash to a costume. People always tell me, ‘It’s too old, throw it away.’

HG: Who said that to you?

HY: I wear this with my Hmong costume. Some of the ladies say, ‘That’s too old, it doesn’t match that.’ I said, ‘No, my mom made it.’

HG: The colors in this look different to me. Can you talk about the colors in this one?

HY: This one I don’t know why my mom made it dark like that. I don’t know if she was just trying out new colors. The Hmong colors are very bright red, yellow, black. Those are more the traditional colors. I don’t know why my mom made it this color.

HG: Was it for a specific occasion?

HY: No, it was for a very black Hmong costume that I had. It’s just very plain black, so she made it to go with the black.

HG: Where have you worn the sash?

HY: I would wear it to church when we have New Years’ singing groups. We do special songs. I like the very modern Hmong costume but I also love the very old traditional costume where you very wear black and paj ntaub, just the red, very simple.

HG: What are the main differences between the older and newer styles?

HY: This is the newer style. [points to piece with coins and beads.] This is not traditional. The newer style they would put coins like this to it, beads. This is what the young people are wearing now. I just though I should get one in case a couple years from now, maybe ten years from now, my son gets married or if I have a daughter. I though I’d get one in case. This is more in the newer style.

HG: Who made this one?

HY: This one I bought from a lady who’s cousin sent it from Thailand. The older style is just plain, black velvet. The older one I have is just black and plain. This would be the sash to it.

HG: Was the outfit made in the United States?

HY: Yes, but it was made when I was very young. It was made here but it’s pretty old, I would say maybe twenty years old. Maybe something like this. You would wear a skirt and pants. The pants would be the same fabric as this. The skirt I have is an all white skirt. This usually goes in the back but I will wear it in the front so you can see. I would have my paj ntaub here.

HG: What about these pink and green colors? Would you call them old?

HY: This one is pretty old although she made it in the United States. This is the traditional. I think my mom got this in Laos so when she passed on she also passed this to me. My son or husband wear this for New Year. They wear traditional Hmong pants and they use this to wrap their waist and they save something like this to show. This is an old one. It’s all torn.

HG: Your son still wears this?

HY: Yes, he still wears this. I tell him to please take care of this.

HG: Do people tell him to get a newer scarf?

HY: People look at it and say, ‘Oh that’s too old, get a new one.’ But I tell them, ‘This is from grandma.’ A lot of our people, I don’t know if they save old things, but I like to save what my mom gave me. This is like the old one I was telling you about. It’s all black. It’s velvet. I also like the velvet shirt. Everything is very black so it looks very simple but it’s also very old costume. The young people nowadays would have velvet with glitter stuff. I’m not too crazy about that. It’s very beautiful.

HG: Is it mostly teenagers that would do that?

HY: Teenagers and young women and also older ladies in their forties and older would wear that. My sister in-law gave me this when we went to Minnesota.

HG: This was purchased in Minnesota?

HY: Yes.

HG: I’ve never seen anything printed with the Hmong design.

HY: It’s newer. A lot of Hmong people now have a lot of ideas. They do a lot of things like this.

HG: Do many people in this area get things like this?

HY: I haven’t seen anyone wear one like this.

HG: What will you use it for?

HY: I will use it for the costume like this one.

HG: So it will be a sash for the back?

HY: Yes. I also wanted to show you something. When I was growing up, we didn’t have this. We call it the ‘lazy Hmong.’

HG: Normally that would be something that was wrapped.

HY: Yes. This is wrapped. But our young people now. They say, ‘Young people, they don’t want to learn it so let’s do something simple.’ So now they make it like this where it would just fit on like that. We don’t use that skill. I don’t know that skill. I’ve learned it, but it’s not perfect. When I was young, this is what I wore.

HG: Did your mother wrap it for you?

HY: Yes. I remember because when I was young I had so much hair. My hair was down to here. Putting my hair up, I had such a lot of hair it was very hard for them to put this on. Wearing that for the whole day, imagine wearing that for the whole day. It was heavy and very hot, but to please my mom I wore it. I just wanted to show you what we have gone through.

HG: So now you wear this one?

HY: Now I wear this one. A lot of our Hmong stores now sell these.

HG: Can you buy them in Pennsylvania or do you have to go to Minnesota?

HY: You can go to Minnesota but my sister in-law; she’s learning to make these. I don’t think you can get them in Pennsylvania unless people send them. That’s what I wanted to show you. This one, like I tell you, I try to make things with Hmong traditional stuff, and I transfer them to fit into my home. Little pillows like this one I use as decoration.

HG: Did you sew that square?

HY: No, this is from my mom’s nephew. [holds older Hmong costume.] This is also something that’s very old. The coins are so dark I don’t know how I’m going to clean them. But my mom gave them to me, so it’s too dark I can’t wear them because people will go, ‘Oh, what happened to your coins?’ But I like to save them. People say cleaning them in lemon juice will clean them off. But I’ve seen solutions that Americans use.

HG: And this was made for you by your mother in the United States?

HY: Yes, when I was very young. So it’s probably 25 years old. [holds up newer Hmong costume.] This is the newest one that I have. My mom’s niece made this and my mom put these together.

HG: Is her niece in Laos?

HY: Yes, she’s in Laos. This is one of the paj ntaub that I learned to make in Philadelphia before I got married. I remember Pang Xiong giving classes. This is one of the paj ntaub that I learned to make. Each of the girls had to pick the blocks and we had to make it our own. I made this my own. I chose the color. I really liked aqua back then. I picked this one and I made this. I think I have a picture. [holds photograph of her at the class.] This was the end of the class and we were taking pictures and mine was not done. I got a little bit of this done. I think we had about ten girls and we learned how to be a good girl.

HG: In the same course?

HY: Yes. Although my mom has always taught me that, I think she got a grant to teach learning to be a good, traditional daughter in-law. She also taught us paj ntaub. I learned to appliqué and I did embroidery.

HG: What are some of your favorite patterns?

HY: I think my favorite is the red and white one, this one. I like old things.

HG: Is it an elephant print?

HY: I forgot if it’s an elephant print or snail. Either one of those.

HG: What about these designs?

HY: These designs, I saw my mom making one with them and I like them so I just made it.

HG: How long did this entire process take?

HY: It took a while. I remember putting these together, appliquéing these on, everything was done by hand, the embroidery. It took months, months, because I had school.

HG: Did those months include sewing the squares?

HY: I don’t think we made the squares. I think we bought them and incorporated them into our quilt. So these were not made by hand. But all these were made by me and my mom finished this.

HG: What are some of the lessons that would go along with the course?

HY: Like I said, being a good daughter in-law. I think for her in was more like enhancing my mom’s teaching. My mom has always taught how to be a good daughter in-law, being a good girl, planning so you can have the right suitor or when you are married how to be a good daughter-in-law to your in-laws. She also taught us the paj ntaub. The basic rules are serving meals to your in-laws, what time to get up, little things that are traditional Hmong.

HG: Would the sewing be part of that?

HY: Yes. We also had a lesson like that and she also had lessons on Hmong quiltmaking. That’s where I learned to make this. Have you seen the Hmong skirt with the pleating? We had an instructor come and show us how to do that. We each made a little doll.

HG: Do you still have yours?

HY: I still have mine. It’s deep down in my suitcase.

HG: That’s interesting. Is that the only time you’ve made the pleated skirt?

HY: Yes. Now I want to make a white one for my son, but I don’t have the time right now. I remember, so I don’t think it should be that hard.

[tape shut off to photograph quilt.]

HG: Would you call this a sampler?

HY: Yes, this is a sampler.

HG: What year did you make this in?

HY: I think it was 1985.

HG: Have you made any samplers since?

HY: No, this was my last. I’m not very good at sewing paj ntaub. I love to. I’ve tried making an elephant print block, but it’s so hard.

HG: What makes it so difficult?

HY: I think because cutting it, you know how as a child you make snowflakes at school, you kind of make that and then put that on the background and then you have to baste it and sew it.

HG: I can’t imagine.

HY: It’s very hard. I’ve done very complicated quilts, and I would rather do that than this. I do like it because it’s my culture and it’s my background. So I keep a lot of the things that my mom made and I’ve learned. [holding up hair piece.] This is my mom’s also. She gave this to me. They call this [Hmong name for hair wrap, pob pa?] There are many hair pieces. This one goes like this. My mom passed this to me. When I got married she gave me this one to keep.

HG: I notice it has the same black and white stripe that the other hair piece has. Does the black and white stripe go anywhere else on your body?

HY: No, just your head. I think they use this to hold it together. [holds up jacket with an embroidered panel on the collar.] This one is my mother in-law’s. Her mother gave this to her in Laos. This is probably about, oh my goodness, maybe about fifty or sixty years old. I was telling my mom, they had this back then [corduroy.] and they used it to make costume. This one is pretty old.

HG: Do you have an idea of what types of occasions she made it for?

HY: Mostly New Years. I know back then people were really poor and they don’t wear things like this every day. They would wear something like this for everyday except not as fine. They would save this mainly for New Years.

HG: How did she keep it with her all that time?

HY: I think she brought it with her from Laos and then she just kept it. This is something the Hmong did. I think eventually maybe she would give it to me. I’m not sure. If she does, I will keep it as a remembrance of her. Now I’m going to start with the American quilts. I have a lot of pictures of things I’ve made, but I don’t have a lot of the things I’ve made. How I got started on quilts. When I first married my husband, my mother in-law, that’s what she was doing. That was something she did to earn extra income. So when I got married my husband was working full-time and going to school full-time, so that was something I did to earn an extra income to help with everyday bills. That’s how I got started. It was a little bit easier because I knew how to sew paj ntaub. So it wasn’t as hard. I’ve heard people say that it was really hard. That’s because they don’t have the paj ntaub. If you know paj ntaub then it’s really easy, although adjusting from paj ntaub to an appliqué quilt is also hard. It’s not something you learn overnight. It really does take time. [pointing to baby quilt.] This is my first baby quilt that I made my son in 1988. It’s very old. I signed it.

HG: Is there a name for this pattern?

HY: No. I don’t know why I made that, but I guess a heart represented love. I just came up with that. I did my own template for the heart and I put it together with the squares.

HG: Did your mother in-law teach you to make American-style appliqué quilts?

HY: Yes, she taught me how to do that. This is something that’s very old but I will never throw it away. I think my son wants it. He and his future wife can have it.

HG: Did he use it on his bed?

HY: Yes. He used it until fifth grade.

HG: It’s so soft.

HY: Yes. He used it a lot. It’s a very well worn out quilt. We put it in the car so sometimes if we go on a long trip we can use it, so it’s still being used today. These are a lot of quilts that I’ve made. I saw a pattern for this but I would design that to match with that. All these are quilts that I’ve made.

HG: What is that pattern? [pointing to photograph.]

HY: That’s a traditional Boston Common. When you mix appliqué with piecing it makes it unique. What I did was I came up with this. [pointing to photograph.] This is my own and it sold immediately. I designed this myself. It’s my own design called Grape Galore. A lot of the quilts now are very traditional. This is not traditional. [holding up quilt top.] This is a Country Bride. This is more traditional. I wanted to make something for a young couple or a single young lady that would want it in their more contemporary home. My aunt came from Laos and she wanted to do something, so I asked her to sew this. This is mine to keep. You know the old saying, ‘you quilt but you don’t have quilts yourself.’ I have a lot of tops but I would love to get it quilted someday for myself, but I want to quilt it myself. I just don’t have the time.

HG: You have the quilting pattern marked on here, don’t you?

HY: It’s all marked. Everything is marked. It’s just waiting to be in the frame and quilted.

HG: When did your aunt put this together?

HY: She was here maybe five years ago. I cut everything and I asked her to sew it. I gave her spending money and I told her this is for me to remember you. This is all hand appliquéd.

HG: Was this her first time making this style of quilt?

HY: I would say that would be her first time.

HG: That’s a wonderful story.

HY: This is a very traditional pattern. You will see a lot when you go to quilt shops.

HG: Are you going to put this on your bed when it’s quilted?

HY: Yes. This is for me. A lot of people when they make quilts, it’s more of an income. I know a lot of the ladies that do a lot of quilts it’s more of a business. For me, I love quilting. It’s for business, but I always want to keep what I make. That’s the problem.

HG: And Grape Galore was sold?

HY: Yes. I did get that copyrighted.

HG: I want to hear the story of how you started designing Grape Galore.

HY: I love designing. If I have time and I have the money, I would design it and put Grape Galore in a book. I saw a picture of a grape wreath and like I said I wanted to make something more contemporary for younger people, for the younger generation. I came up with the pattern and I got it quilted. So I said, ‘What to name it?’ My son came up with, ‘Mom, just name it Grape Galore.’

HG: How old was he when he came up with that?

HY: I think that was two years ago, so he would have been twelve.

HG: What a bright kid!

HY: He says, ‘Mom, just name it Grape Galore.’ I go well grape is very contemporary with some traditional nine-patch. He says, ‘Mom, just name it Grape Galore.’ I took it to a show and it won top honor.

HG: What show did you take it to?

HY: [inaudible.] It won top honors. I really liked it so I got it copyrighted just so it’s mine.

HG: Have you made any more?

HY: I have. I have one on the frame over there, but it’s different. I changed it and made it a Grape Galore II. I just changed it a little bit.

HG: It’s very elegant and contemporary.

HY: Like I said, if I see a pattern I like, I like to change it and make it my own. I add corners to it like this one. [pointing to photograph.] It’s very antique. The couple that bought it wanted one for their antique bed. I do mostly appliqué but I also do a lot of piecing, just combining the work. This one I came up with myself, too. It’s a very cute one. It’s called Memories of Home. I don’t remember when I made this, but it was a long time ago. I do a lot of designing myself, just coming up with little things, not a lot, little things and playing around.

HG: Do you usually have a specific person in mind when you’re designing something, or a type of person?

HY: Oh yes. I think when you’re making any type of quilt you’re thinking of a country person or a sophisticated lady, or a younger couple or someone that really likes, I have a friend that does whimsical quilts, folky, she does a lot of that so I do particular for each quilt. It’s not all just traditional.

HG: What kind of things do people commission from you?

HY: I’ve never really done commission work. I worked for a lady, Jean Herrs. She does a lot of her own designing. Her work is also copyrighted. So whenever I do something, whatever is hers, if it’s copyrighted you don’t make that to sell, it’s always her. What she does is, she will commission me to make a particular pattern. Then she will get that quilted.

[end of tape side one.]

HG: Do you give quilts as gifts?

HY: Yes.

HG: For what kinds of occasions?

HY: I can’t make it for wedding gifts because it’s too hard to make and so time-consuming, and I have lots of nieces and nephews. I don’t think I can make everybody a big quilt. ‘Po’ is aunt. They would say ‘Po po, you gave this to [inaudible.], I want one.’ So I don’t know if I can give everybody one but I’ve given baby quilts. I’ve done baby showers. I’ve done just making baby quilts. I do have a quilt so that it’s quilted and it’s not just hand-tied. I do have a quilt and give to them for their first child. For other people I’ve done quilts, but just tied. I don’t have time to quilt but I wanted to give something more special. I make the top and I do the batting and the backing, but I would tie it.

HG: What types of designs do you usually give as gifts?

HY: The easiest ones. I like to do Windmill. That’s very easy. I also do the Ohio Star. That’s also very easy. Or just blocks, little blocks. And I like the Bargello.

HG: I can’t remember what Bargello is.

Yang with two quilts, including the Bargello quilt discussed here.

HY: Bargello is very easy. [brings out a Bargello quilt from back of couch.] If I make a baby quilt for a little girl I make it pink and white or rose and white, but mostly I do it more for boys so it’s mostly yellow.

HG: So are there curved pieces here or is the color tricking my eye?

HY: The color is tricking your eye. This was for my fireplace, but because it was so big and we just finished painting. What you do is you strip and pull that up. It’s just tricking your eye to make it look like it’s curved. My son says ,’Mom, that looks like an alligator’s mouth.’ This is called Bargello. I’ve given mostly squares, stars, triangles put together. This is for my fireplace but I don’t have time to finish it. We’re going to use it as a throw. This one a friend gave to me. I have a Mennonite friend and we love to trade work. I would make an appliqué top for her, whatever she needs, and sometimes I would trade work with her on her piecing. This one I think she needed a top and she had these left and didn’t use it. She was going to throw it away. I said, ‘Don’t throw it away. Put it together for me and let’s trade some work.’ So we trade work and she gave me the top. We’re using as a family quilt.

HG: What types of work do you give her back?

HY: A lot of times she will give me a piece of work and she says, ‘Do whatever you think looks nice.’ I have a sample that I can show you. [holds Bargello quilt.] This one she would give me the top and that’s also called Bargello. She wanted something more contemporary and she said, ‘Do whatever you think will look nice.’ She trusts me in that area. What I came up with is just simple leaves. You don’t want it too busy because you don’t want to take attention away from the inside. I made just very contemporary leaves.

HG: You have them overlapping the piecing. That’s unusual.

HY: Yes, although I’ve seen that done before.

HG: Do you have a name for this beside Bargello.

HY: She said that the two remind her of twin towers. I don’t know what she’s going to name it. My job was just to come up with an appliqué pattern for her.

HG: Is this something that she’ll use for her bed?

HY: I think she’s going to sell this. She has a small business. She doesn’t do a lot. She just does a lot of piecing for people that have shops. She does piecing. She doesn’t know how to do appliqué, so when she needs appliquéing done she comes to me and asks me what to do and I would make the appliqué for her.

HG: How did you meet her?

HY: We were doing a project together. We did a crazy quilt together. She pieced the crazy quilt and I did the border on the crazy quilt, [inaudible.] designs but more embroidery. That’s how we met and we became friends. That was about nine years ago.

HG: So what she will be returning for the Bargello?

HY: This one she will just pay me unless I think of something. For this one I think I did an appliqué. After I put it together and it’s quilted she saw how flat it lay and she says, ‘Oh that turned out nice.’ Our family has been using this for a lot. I call this the sick blanket. We use it a lot, especially to cuddle up. My mom says, ‘Why do you use that? It’s going to get old and worn.’ But I tell my mom, ‘Mom it’s made to be used.’

HG: She thinks that textiles should be preserved?

HY: Yes.

HG: Are there any quilts besides your son’s baby quilt that you are really careful with?

HY: Yes, I do have some. Would you like me to show you?

HG: Yes.

HY: I have some tops here. These I did make, but these are the ones I’m going to save for myself. The lady I trade with, I made her an appliqué quilt, a top. [holding up quilt.] Her daughter made this. We also traded a top. A lot of times the tops that I ask her to make, these are the ones that I like to save for myself. I just don’t have the time to quilt it.

HG: When was this made?

HY: Last year.

HG: I like the fabric. It looks like batik.

HY: Yes, they are batik. In my stash I have about five or six quilts that I’d like to save for myself and just pass along to Tong. These are signed quilts and I think they are also dated.

HG: Where are they signed? Here it is ‘CHW 10/11/02.’

HY: The ones they made for me, I ask them to sign and date them so at least maybe fifty or sixty years from now my grandchildren will know when it was done.

HG: So do you sign your work?

HY: Yes, the ones for friends I would sign.

HG: Do you sign the ones that you sell?

HY: The ones that are not my designs I don’t sign. The ones that are my original designs, I sign that.

HG: Did you sign ‘Grape Galore?’

HY: Yes I did. I’ll show you my workroom later. It’s very messy.

HG: I would love that. It’s the way they should be.

HY: I tell my husband, ‘it’s messy but I know where everything is.’ The lady I trade with, her name is Grace High. She is an excellent, excellent piecer. [holding quilt.] This is one example of her work.

HG: Wow. Did she do the appliqué on this, too?

HY: No, I do that appliqué. This appliqué is my own. I just come up with things that I think would look nice with it.

HG: Is this one signed? Oh, here it is. So this one was made for you personally, as a gift?

HY: Yes.

HG: Was it an exchange?

HY: It was an exchange. Whenever she needs like a top done. The top I made for her was a two hundred dollar top, very nice top. Then I would choose one thing that she could trade. Sometimes she doesn’t have the money to pay me or I don’t have the money to pay her, but we like to trade work. I could sell this, but I like to keep it. Maybe some year I will have time to quilt them. So that’s what we do. We trade work. I give her the fabrics and then I ask her what to make. So this is one of the patterns that I ask her to make.

HG: Do you enjoy the piecing, also?

HY: Oh yes. I’m learning but I’m not doing the hard pattern. I love the Mariner’s Compass. I think that is such a beautiful, beautiful pattern. I can do simple ones, like these stars I can do. I can do triangles. I can’t do the stars in the middle yet. I can do Bargellos. A lot of the things you see that I have here, that star I don’t think I can do that yet because of the points. [pointing to pieced pillow cover.]

HG: Why is that so difficult?

HY: You have to get the points exact or else it won’t look nice. If I make it I would have it cut off. You have to get the point really nice.

HG: Is that something Grace High made?

HY: Oh yes. Some people do paper piecing. You can do that and get it really nice.

HG: That’s actually how I’m doing my sister’s quilt because it’s the easiest way for me to do it.

HY: Yes, you can paper piece also. She just pieces it together. I’d like to take a class and learn to do paper piecing.

HG: I’m learning it from a book.

HY: I’m not the type of person that can read a book and follow directions. I’m the seeing person. If I see people do it once, I can learn. It’s easy for me that way. I guess if I really spend time and read it, I would learn.

HG: Do you think you got that from your mom?

HY: Yes, I probably got that from my mom.

HG: I’ve heard women of that generation from that generation talking about how they learned very easily by watching their mothers.

HY: Yes, so I learned that from my mom. [brings out two quilts, one bed size and one wall size.] There’s a story to this quilt that I’d like to share with you. This is also a Bargello quilt. This is my son’s quilt. If you look on the back there are two colors to it. It’s a little bit odd. If we turn it to the front, I’ll show you the story. I was pregnant in the year 2000. The doctor said it was going to be twins. My friend, Grace High, wanted to make a gift for me. So I got her the fabric and she was going to make two baby quilts for the two twins, two boys. Unfortunately, I had a miscarriage and I wasn’t able to have the two babies. She’s just a terrific lady. Instead of making two quilts she made one quilt for Tong. Now it’s her gift to Tong. What she also did was she made a memory quilt. She had all the doctors and nurses sign this.

HG: Does it bring back a lot of memories?

HY: Oh yes.

HG: Do you keep this folded up in your suitcase?

HY: My son had this on his wall. But he redid his bed so I just put it down. He did have it on his wall for two years.

HG: Who wrote this inscription?

HY: I wrote that. Believe it or not, we got together and quilted this together, also on a frame. It took a whole day to do this, but we got together, Grace and her daughter. The three of us got together and just quilted. We always joke about this, a Mennonite lady and a Hmong lady.

HG: Is that a funny combination?

HY: It is, it is because mostly it is just business. People would just work to appliqué a top for a Mennonite or an Amish lady but they never have a friendship. They do have friends, but it’s just like acquaintance. She is like a mom. She’s really, really nice. She gives me things free and I give her things free. She’s like a second mom. We would get together and quilt. We would get together and donate quilts for Doctor Morton’s show. I’ll show you what we did. Some of the quilts that we donated for Doctor Morton. We donated this one. [pointing to photograph.]

HG: Is this a Mariner’s Compass?

HY: Yes. I would do all the appliqué, come up with the pattern, her daughter would do the middle, and she does the star. This year we didn’t do anything. She did something of her own but just because I’m so busy I didn’t have the time. We’ve been doing it for maybe three or four years.

HG: Without pay, just donation?

HY: Without pay. It’s just donation.

HG: Do many other people in the Hmong community here do donation quilts for that auction?

HY: I don’t think so. Just because I know her and she’s been doing this for I don’t know how many years. One day talked to me about it and I said, ‘Let me know. I’d like to help. Why don’t we come up with something?’ We just combined appliqué with piecing. What we do is when we’re done putting the whole thing together we will all get together at her house. Maybe she’ll get her sisters to come. One of her sisters is a board member in Doctor Morton. We will get together and quilt and bring food. I will bring Hmong food and she will make Mennonite food. They love my Wonton soup.

HG: I’ve heard there is great food at the Mennonite auctions.

HY: Oh yes, they have very good food and they are very, very good bakers. They make the best desserts.

HG: Thank you very much for sharing that story with me.

HY: Yes. Tong uses this a lot. Grace’s daughter is a Mennonite lady but she also volunteers for the ambulance in their community. She took it to the hospital and asked all the nurses to sign it. She went to the doctor’s office and asked the doctors to sign it. They presented that to me which was really, really nice. These were the other Doctor Morton quilts that we did. [pointing to photographs.]

HG: Those aren’t simple quilts that you are doing for donation.

HY: They are very, very complicated. Grace is a very, very generous person. She does quilts for Doctor Morton. They also have a Central Mennonite Committee auction. I got involved with that just because she was doing a lot and I wanted to help so I helped with what I could do.

HG: Do you know of any Hmong paj ntaub being auctioned at any Amish auctions?

HY: I don’t know.

HG: The reason I’m asking is that there was an old story cloth listed for auction on ebay that was bought at an auction in New Holland. I thought that was unusual and I was just wondering if anything was every specifically put in.

HY: I don’t think that would be there yet. My brother is a website designer and he always tells me, ‘If you want your business to grow, why don’t you advertise on the website or put your things up on the website?’ But I don’t want it to be that big. I think if a business grows you’re going to need more people to work for you. You’re going to spend more time. It’s very stressful. I don’t want it to be that big. I want to enjoy what I’m making. I will take you to see my workshop. I made that one for Tong. We decided to use this one. My father in-law quilted this one. I think I did sign the date so whenever we are old and I can pass it down so the kids can know this is grandpa’s quilt.

HG: Why did he do the quilting on it?

HY: I asked him to quilt it, just something to remember my father in-law. He does quilting to earn extra income. When I told him it was for Tong he didn’t want anything for it. He just said, ‘Give it to Tong.’

HG: Somehow it is so special when men in the family participate in quilting.

HY: This is my Grape Galore quilt.

HG: Grape Galore II?

HY: Yes, Grape Galore II. I haven’t have time and my room is so tiny the quilt frame just barely makes it. They are fixing the sunroom so I can quilt from outside. I do my cutting and my sewing there and my quilts and my fabrics. Lots of leftover fabric. This is my new project that I’m working on, whenever I have time. I’d like to do just a red and white quilt for people who love French Country. This is more like a red and white French Country.

HG: So you are saving up the fabrics to make this quilt, but you don’t know who the quilt will go to?

HY: No, I think I will just make that to sell. But like I say, I always like the quilt I make. I never want to give it up. My husband says, ‘You need to sell the quilt.’ I say, ‘Can’t I just keep this one?’ This is my next project. After I’m done painting the house, painting the sunroom, and when my son goes to school, I will start quilting again. I made one like this last summer. I did do all the piecing myself, which was nice. It was my first time completing a whole piecing quilt.

HG: What is the pattern name for this?

HY: This is “Roses for a Cure.” This is from McCall’s quilt magazine. It’s on the cover. They made this quilt to be auctioned off for a Breast Cancer project so I changed the name to “Summer Roses.” This will be this pattern. It will be an all red and white quilt.

HG: When do you usually work on quilts?

HY: Right now, like I said, when you are doing it for a business it’s very stressful. I have been doing this for, I would say, fifteen years, earning some extra income. It’s just too stressful. When you sit a lot and appliqué a lot, you get a back ache. My husband said, ‘You don’t have to do that. Why don’t you just stop?’ I kind of gave up. I’m not doing anything right now. I don’t know about paj ntaub. Someday I would like to incorporate paj ntaub into quilting. I don’t know how I’m going to do that. Maybe changing the color to be more contemporary paj ntaub. That’s one thing I did think of, because I’m Hmong with a Hmong background. I love the paj ntaub, but it’s just something from my culture that I like to keep. I don’t know as for business. I don’t think I can do what Pang Xiong and Lo Mao does, just because I’m not that big. I don’t know all the connections. When you’re doing what they’re doing, from a business point, it gets a lot of stress. I like to do this as a relaxation. This one I’d like to keep. This one I don’t think I will sell. My son will like to have a Grape Galore for his wedding. The original one I will make for him and we’d also like to keep one, so I will make two and that will be ours to keep.

HG: That’s so special, since he named it, for him to have.

HY: He likes the color. I think it’s a very contemporary color. He likes that.

HG: He seems to like the batik fabrics.

HY: I love the batik fabrics.

HG: Can you purchase them around here?

HY: Oh yes. There is a fabric store right around the corner. I would say two miles from here, Sauders Fabrics. They carry a variety of batik, very beautiful fabric. They are very hard fabrics to quilt with. If you wash it with fabric softener and then you just put it in the dryer, it becomes very soft and is very easy to quilt. I learn all these techniques from my Mennonite friends.

HG: Do you think the Mennonites have much in common with the way you were brought up?

HY: I think so. On how a woman should act. The way their ladies are and we are. Their whole unit families are. I think it is a lot the same. I think that is probably why we get along so well. Although with the Mennonite culture, they don’t live with their in-laws. They don’t do that. That’s one thing I find that they are so different from us. Once their son or daughter marries. In our culture the daughter never stays with their parents anyway. It’s always with the in-laws. But the son and his wife would stay with the parents for at least one or two years before they move out. The youngest is always with the parents. We are not the youngest, but the youngest decided not to stay so that’s why we’re here. With us, there is always one that will stay with the parents. With the Mennonites, as soon as the son decides to get married they move out. That’s one difference that I see between the two cultures.

HG: So in your culture, the grandmother would do a lot of the raising of the children. Is that correct?

HY: I’m more of a conservative Hmong American where we see the importance of the mother staying home. I’m the soccer mom USA. My son doesn’t play soccer, but he does a lot of baseball and he does tennis and piano.

HG: You have a lot of driving to do, don’t you?

HY: Oh yes. One parent needs to stay home and take care of him. Do the car driving.

HG: Lo Mao said something similar about what happened when she was having difficulties keeping up with her quilting because she had to drive her kids everywhere.

HY: Right now I’m not doing quilting as a business. It’s more fun, something I enjoy and like doing. What I do is I would sell little things when I have time, just little things I can do but it’s not like a nine to five job. The chicken that you see, Grace wanted some, so that’s why I cut some for my mom. That will be for Grace, something she will purchase from me. Little things. I won’t do big quilts anymore because that’s too time- consuming.

HG: Do you enjoy it more now that it’s not a business?

HY: Yes, it’s more fun. I can choose the color that I like, a project that I really wanted to do before that I haven’t had time to do. I like to get into more designing. I really enjoy that, designing things, coming up with my own ideas, drawing that, putting that on paper, buying the fabrics. That’s the most fun part, buying the fabrics then making that into a quilt. I think that is very fun for me. Even when I’m old, I can see myself passing that onto my grandchildren. It’s not a Hmong thing. It’s something I picked up with the American culture and with the Mennonite and Amish culture. But it’s something that I’ve learned to love.

HG: Do you have other friends or relatives that do quilting for enjoyment?

HY: I don’t think so. It’s mainly for extra income. Mainly for like a job, something they can do while they are home watching the children to get a little income. For me, it’s more for enjoyment.

HG: For Grape Galore you won top honors in a contest. Have you entered anything into any other quilt shows?

HY: No, I should.

HG: Will you?

HY: I think when you are entering something into a contest, there is the expectation that you make something the best you can, making something that’s really good. I think that when you do things like that it takes out the enjoyment part of it. I think Grape Galore was something that I thought of in an idea, it was fun to put it in, putting it in a show and winning a prize is just a bonus. Maybe someday. I hear of a lot of people doing that.

HG: Was your family very excited when you won?

HY: Yes. My son and my husband, they were very, very excited. I have a friend in China who is a teacher to the Hmong in China. She sent photos of Hmong in China.

HG: Is she a Hmong person?

HY: She’s American.

HG: Does she speak the language?

HY: She’s learning. She sent photos of the Hmong in China.

HG: What is she helping them with?

HY: I think she’s teaching them English. She’s also doing linguistic studies. She’s learning the Hmong language, but she’s probably teaching English. I’m not really sure what she does, but I met her through church. We’ve just been keeping in contact with one another. I gave her a little money to send me a costume of the Hmong in China, so she did do that.

HG: Are there Hmong from the White clan in China?

HY: Yes, there are White clan and also the Green Hmong.

HG: Is that a fox? Something just ran by the window.

HY: We see turkeys here. We see deer here. A lot of little birds. Even when the geese are flying they stop by. In the fall we have all these black birds that would sleep in our tree. They would just come pick at the lawn to get worms. You would see all these black birds flying and flying.

HG: You were not brought up in Lancaster, were you?

HY: No, I was brought up in Philadelphia. I moved here when I got married.

HG: How old were you when you got married?

HY: I was sixteen years old, pretty young.

HG: Do you enjoy it here?

HY: Oh, I love it here. I think I like the country life better than the city life. It’s so much quieter.

HG: Did you live in the city?

HY: I lived in the city of Philadelphia at 45th and Chestnut.

HG: What are some of the differences living here?

HY: It’s peaceful. The people are quieter. It’s just not as noisy. I like it here. I go back to Philadelphia and I get scared. Even in Philadelphia when we came, there was not that much Hmong. Because of how my family was raised, a typical Hmong girl, my mom, I didn’t have a father growing up, so my mom was always very careful with where I go or who I hang out with. Every Saturday there was a soccer game or just a get-together. My brothers would go to the park and play soccer of volleyball, but my mom would never let me go because I was a girl. Just because of the way I was raised, I was never allowed to participate in the dance, or do a lot of things that maybe some Hmong girls did. I guess that’s why I’m not very interested in all those costumes. I’ve seen a lot of girls that have more costumes than I do or they are more interested, but I guess I was never really into that. More just typical American Hmong girl.

HG: Were other Hmong girls that you went to school with or your relatives go to these things?

HY: Some of them would go, probably because their mom and dad were not protective as mine. My mom was very protective so I wasn’t allowed to go.

HG: Philadelphia is really a big city.

HY: The first year my mom took me to California and there were so many Hmong people it was a culture shock. I was so surprised to go and say, ‘Oh my goodness, I didn’t know there were this many Hmong people.’ I was able to go and ‘pou pob,’ the New Years throwing the ball and wear my costume and see how the different people dress, the ideas they bring into the Hmong costume. I’ve never been to Minnesota to the Fourth of July or New Years, but I hear there are a lot of Hmong.

HG: Do you ever go to the Hmong New Year celebration in Philadelphia?

HY: No, we don’t go back. We would go back to purchase supplies. We have an Oriental store here. Little things, before winter, my husband and I like to just shop for the winter. Because we’re Christians, we don’t participate in a lot of the dances that they do. We don’t do that. We do have a Hmong New Year in church where everybody would wear their costume and we celebrate differently now.

HG: When did that start up, having the New Year celebration in church?

HY: I think ever since they became Christian, fifty years ago. My mom said when they were Christian they would celebrate the Hmong New Year and they would also go to church to worship and sing. Celebrating the New Year without contradicting our Christianity, we do that. When things contradict, we don’t do that. We still do our Hmong costume, we sing and we celebrate. Food, we do cook, we do all those but the things that the non-Christians do we don’t do. I just wanted to show you a little bit of my workroom. My sunroom out there will be my quilt room. My workshop will still be my sewing room. This was a patio. We just finished putting the insulation in. I will be painting this room. We will put carpet down and vinyl on the side. I will be quilting over here. It will be a family room also.

HG: Is there anything you’d like to talk about before we finish up the interview?

HY: Here is another quilt I like to keep. [holding quilt.] I didn’t make this one. This was made by Grace’s daughter. We traded for this. I did an appliqué for her and I gave her some of my scrap fabrics. I wanted something very scrappy. I gave her all my scraps and said, ‘Just come up with something to use.’ She came up with this. This is all the fabrics that I’ve used over the years that I like.

HG: So you were happy with what she came up with?

HY: Yes.

HG: Is there a name for this design?

HY: The square is a nine-patch. If you look at it you can see a star. The yellow piece right here is called the hourglass. If you look at it, can you see the stars?

HG: As colors change for the market, and you see different things go out of style, what are your favorite timeless colors that you always enjoy?

HY: Like you said when we’re in business anything in business you want to try to keep up with the trend. Right now purples are really popular and batik. Even though I’m not in the business right now, when I do make a quilt I try to look at the trend that’s going on and try to make a quilt that a typical younger couple, or anyone. The houses today are more contemporary. Neutral colors, not traditional sofas, more of a clean look. You want something that is more contemporary, so when I make a quilt I look at all this stuff. For me, I think my personal favorite is always going to be wine and navy.

HG: And that’s what you have decorating your home?

HY: Yes. This is more of a red and green, but if I do build a house someday and it’s all neutral, I’d like to have a very bright quilt, a very nice contemporary quilt. I will keep all these. My house will be very neutral so I can use all of the quilts that I have. For me I don’t have one particular favorite, but I like wine and navy.

HG: Do you enjoy hanging quilts on the walls?

HY: Yes, I enjoy it.

HG: Do you ever hang paj ntaub on the wall?

HY: I used to, like the one that I made when I was young. I was telling my husband that I would like to hang that in the sunroom, but it’s going to be more like an artwork. The only thing is that sun changes the shade of fabrics.

HG: Do your in-laws like having quilts hanging?

HY: I think they don’t mind. I would love paj ntaub in my house here, but the color coordination. Like the one that I made, if I put it in here, the colors would be so off. I put a little bit of this, that’s the reason why I made this pillow, just to put it there, lest I forget that I’m Hmong. I like quilts but like they say my roots are Hmong. You never forget.

[tape ends.][interview begins as Houa’s mother in-law, Mai Yang, is showing some of the Hmong embroidery she is working on.]

Heather Gibson (HG): Yes. So these are in process?

HY: Yes.

HG: How does she choose the colors?

HG: Does she buy her threads here?

HG: What about the car ornaments?

HG: Where do they get sold?

HG: Are these made by men or women?

HG: Are they in Laos or Thailand?

HY: They are Hmong in Laos.

HG: Have they come back from Thailand, or had they never left?

HY: They were in Thailand, but they were forced to go back to Laos. This is the most recent that they have sent.

HG: Do you have one in your car?

HG: So does your mom sew mostly for costume?

HG: Is there a specific meaning behind the design she is making?

HG: Has she ever made story cloths?

HY: [Houa speaks to Mai Yang in Hmong.] She has done it before, but now she doesn’t do that.

HG: Can you ask her what she enjoys most in sewing?

HG: This is for sale?

HY: Yes, this is for sale. It is extra income.

HG: Where are they sold?

HY: They are sold through quilt shops or sometimes just through people that see them and like them, or people we know. Mostly they’re sold in quilt shops.

HG: Do you ever incorporate paj ntaub in them?

HG: I’ve seen a couple that Pang Xiong has done, but no others.

HG: Beautiful.

HG: That’s beautiful. Are the patterns purchased?

HG: Oh, the Lancaster Quilt Show. I have been there.

HG: Wonderful. She enjoys the animal pattern?

HY: Yes, she likes that. [Mai Yang speaks to Houa in Hmong.] She says of all the chickens this is the hardest to do.

HG: Why is that?

HY: Because of the many pieces. She says because of the many pieces.

HG: I love the leopard print fabric.

HY: I have the pattern for this, but it’s very hard to find the colors and cutting it and putting it together and making sure it comes out right. This is what she’s making.

HG: So you choose your own patterns?

HG: For your mother, would doing this type of appliqué remind her of doing paj ntaub?

HG: I’ve never seen one with this type of embroidery around the border. Is that typical or an innovation?

HG: Is this for a New Year?

HY: Yes, for New Year, for weddings and special celebrations.

HG: Who is in this picture?

HY: These are my nieces, her grandchildren. This is more of the newer, not too new, but this is what the young people wear.

HG: Were they made by your mother?

HG: Who said that to you?

HY: I wear this with my Hmong costume. Some of the ladies say, ‘That’s too old, it doesn’t match that.’ I said, ‘No, my mom made it.’

HG: The colors in this look different to me. Can you talk about the colors in this one?

HG: Was it for a specific occasion?

HY: No, it was for a very black Hmong costume that I had. It’s just very plain black, so she made it to go with the black.

HG: Where have you worn the sash?

HG: What are the main differences between the older and newer styles?

HG: Who made this one?

HY: This one I bought from a lady who’s cousin sent it from Thailand. The older style is just plain, black velvet. The older one I have is just black and plain. This would be the sash to it.

HG: Was the outfit made in the United States?

HG: What about these pink and green colors? Would you call them old?

HG: Your son still wears this?

HY: Yes, he still wears this. I tell him to please take care of this.

HG: Do people tell him to get a newer scarf?

HY: People look at it and say, ‘Oh that’s too old, get a new one.’ But I tell them, ‘This is from grandma.’ A lot of our people, I don’t know if they save old things