Le Rowell (LR): My name is Le Rowell. Today’s date is November 12, 2001 and it is 10:38 A.M. and I am conducting an interview for the Quilters’ S.O.S. – Save Our Stories, a project of The Alliance for American Quilts, and I’m here with Carter Houck and we are in her home in Charlottesville, Virginia. So Carter, tell me about the quilt that you brought with you today.
Carter Houck (CH): Okay, it’s one of my remade 1930’s quilts. I bought the blocks in Vermont and some of them are feed sack and they were in the usual fashion, buttonhole stitched in black, for no reason known to anyone. And they’re on muslin, very heavy muslin but could not have been hand quilted for which reason I had it machine quilted. I had to take the blocks apart and restitch them because they were not well done shall we say, and I was lucky to find at the quilt museum [Virginia Quilt Museum in Harrisonburg, Virginia.] to matching feed sacks to make the border and I had another feed sack I could cut up for the binding. So it’s all 1930’s.
LR: Talk about the feed sacks. What is the history of feed sacks in quilting?
CH: So far as I know feed sacks in prints were only manufactured by a company called Bemis Bags in Minnesota and they must have had, of course it was the 30’s and everybody was poor, they must have had a million artists whose work they could tap to get the designs for the feed sacks. They were all designed by women I understand and they just turned out I don’t know how many hundred, somebody is keeping as much of a record of it as they can in North Carolina and they remember, I remember they’re appearing in the late 30’s perhaps or maybe mid 30’s and my father bought his feed in these printed feed sacks and when my daughter was born he gave these to me as he would get them and they made the cutest little dresses for her and they’re very soft like linen. So she liked them better than this starchy stiff fabrics off the bolt, but at seven years old she went from a one feed sack size to a two feed sack size [laughs.] so he had to get matching ones. I’m basically a maker of clothing, not quilts. So that’s where feed sacks came into life.
LR: And why is this particular quilt special to you?
CH: It’s typical 30’s in every sense. The feed sacks, the terrible black buttonhole stitching. It’s all something that was never done before or after and the butterfly design was everywhere. Any woman who thought she could appliqué and probably couldn’t did a butterfly quilt.
LR: So you rescue old quilt tops?
CH: Tops, blocks, odds and ends, anything that will make up into a quilt.
LR: How did you get into quilting?
CH: My background is in fashion and I studied at what is now VCU in Richmond. [Virginia.]
LR: And what is VCU?
CH: Virginia Commonwealth University. It was when I went to it a part of William and Mary. It was also the only school in the south with a fashion department that was recommended by Vogue’s school directory. And you could write to Vogue at that time and get from their directory a listing of whatever they recommended particularly in the fashion field. I also went to St. Margaret’s in Tappahannock [a town in Virginia.] on the Rappahannock [a river in Virginia.].
LR: Tappahannock on the Rappahannock.
CH: Tappy on the Rappy as it was known [laughs.] to the girls in school and when it got time to see about college I knew I wanted to go into design and so I wrote to Vogue and they said the only recommended school in the south is VCU. It was then the College of William and Mary and so I applied and they gave me a working scholarship for part of my tuition and I think it cost a red hot $600 a year then to go to college [laughs.]. So we had a marvelous design department and art department and you could get a two year certification. So that’s what I got and went to New York.
LR: And then how did you follow that?
CH: Well, at first I worked for Singer Sewing Company as a teacher and they had classes, day and night classes, and I was the youngest teacher they’d ever hired. I was nineteen, and I had to submit work and so forth and so on and was hired as a teacher. And then Singer was not a joyful company to work for and it was very male ruled and they took a dim view of these ladies who knew how to use those sewing machines. And then I went to Butterick Pattern Company and worked for them and I can go on with what I did if you want me to?
LR: The designs you did for Butterick–
CH: I didn’t do designs, I was a pattern maker.
LR: Pattern maker?
CH: I was again the youngest pattern maker they’d ever hired and under some scrutiny for that reason, but my patterns seemed to have turned out okay [laughs.] and this was clothing of course, not art of any kind, not quilts or anything, and when I married and moved to Fort Worth [Texas.] I had two children and a tremendous need to get back into my work in some way. So I did a couple of columns on sewing and took them down to the local newspaper, The Fort Worth Star Telegram, which was at that time the largest newspaper in Texas and said brashly, ‘I could do a column on sewing for you and women are all starting to sew again after the war.’ They looked it over and said, ‘Yeah, three times a week.’ So that was neat because I could do it and take care of my children and not leave the house. I don’t think I ever saw the people at the Star Telegram again. I mailed my column in for two years, moved back east and they accepted my finishing a year after I moved east but they preferred to have Texan writers. So then I sort of pulled my credentials together and went to Parents’ Magazine and said, ‘Do you need a sewing column?’ and they said, ‘Yes, we do’ [laughs]. I was very lucky. I mean I just, you know, every time I said this is what I want to do, I could find somebody within the first two people I went to who wanted it, and I think there are not many people who really study the nitty gritty basics of sewing and I had done that in college. I wasn’t a designer with a pencil and a piece of paper. I worked in fabric with a wonderful professor and so that was an entrée always to whatever I wanted to do.
LR: And then, talk now about this transition into the world of quilting, because you’re very much linked. You are referred to as an expert.
CH: Well, I’m only an expert in that I know something about design and I know a lot about construction. It has nothing to do with the number of quilts I’ve made. It has to do with what I know is in a quilt when I look at it and take it apart and so forth. 1976 of course was the year that quilting suddenly emerged. Now there had been a few people quilting throughout the 60’s and early 70’s, but not many, and when it emerged I was working for a magazine company that had a lot of magazines. I have to search my brain on this because I was doing a magazine on sewing and embroidery and it was kind of a general thing for women who did things with their hands and needles and threads. It was called Ladies Circle Needlework–I have old copies out in the garage–and then when ’75 came around I’d been doing the needlework for maybe three or four years and my boss said, ‘What’s this about quilts?’ And I said, ‘Well there’s only one quilt magazine on the market, it’s a black and white, privately published by Leman in Denver.’
LR: Is that L-E-M-A-N?
CH: Yes, it’s Bonnie Leman.
LR: Bonnie Leman.
CH: Bonnie started her magazine on the kitchen table, she will tell you any day, and it was all black and white. We had color capability at the magazine I worked for. So I said, ‘If we put in a block of color that would be eight pages, we would outdo anything that’s on the market.’ And I had this marvelous photographer that I had already been working with named Myron Miller and he has to be mentioned because he was a big part of what I did and he had gone with me on these scouting trips to find needlework. We always did some articles on needlework in old houses, houses that were open to the public and we would go in and find what they had that they would like photographed and we’d mention the house and that it was open and so forth. We’d gone to one up in Connecticut that had quilts on the beds and they were absolutely spectacular and Myron who has as great sense of design said, ‘These are it! Forget all of that piddly diddly needlework, quilts are really exciting.’ So then I went back to my boss and said, ‘How about a quilt magazine?’ and that was when we started Ladies’ Circle Patchwork Quilts and that, I’m sure, was ’74, ’75. And so it started out four times a year and then I got an assistant, Karen O’Dowd, to work with me and we went to ten times a year. And we had been running exactly twenty years and my boss decided that he was going to get his finger in the pie and tell us how to do a quilt magazine and one day he got very heavy handed about it and I said, ‘You know I just figured out I worked twenty years for you and I’m way past retirement age and I think it’s time you get a new editor.’ [laughs.] At which point he hit the ceiling [laughs.] cause that wasn’t what he had in mind [laughs.], and my co-editor and my art director were sitting in the next room and they said you could hear him hit the ceiling. [laughs.] So that was the end. I mean I did it for twenty years. That was it and in that time, yes I learned a lot. That’s the only reason I’m any sort of an expert on quilts. If you handle them and look at them and photograph them and look up the names and history of them you learn a lot. Has nothing to do with me being a great quilter.
LR: But on the other hand your expertise in design and your experience has led you into exhibitions, to judging exhibitions, could you talk about that?
CH: Well, I can’t even remember where and when I first judged but I judged for one of the very early Houston shows and the difference between the Houston show then and the Houston show now is something you could write a book about. Absolutely remarkable what they’ve done there.
LR: In what way?
CH: It’s one of the biggest trade shows in the country of any kind and it’s too big, it’s overwhelming to me, but at first it was a down home quilt show with a few booths with people selling thing and it was all Karey Bresenhan’s idea and she has just ridden it to the heights. She’s done them in Europe. I’ve been to one in Denmark and one in Austria and can’t remember, oh, one in Holland. And there have been others I haven’t been to. But she’s done a remarkable job.
LR: Talk about some of your judging experiences in exhibitions, the pros and cons.
CH: Alright, some might not need to go into print. [laughs.]
LR: Share what you would like.
CH: They’re funny, they’re funny–
CH: I guess I started judging around New England and there were some big groups of quilting guilds that started putting on shows so they got to be pretty good, pretty early, but there were others that were really down home. You know there was just–everybody and anybody brought in anything they’d made. They weren’t pre-screened or anything like that. If you got fifty quilts in some of them you were lucky and then the numbers mounted and the people running the shows still thought three judges could judge all the quilts in one day, a hundred and fifty, a hundred and eighty, two hundred and ten and we all had to put our feet down and say, ‘Sorry, two days, we can’t do this. We can’t even write up,’ because we like to write a little critique to give to the quilter and you can’t do it in that kind of time. I judged out in the Midwest and I’ve judged in California. Oh, that was a nightmare. We judged six thousand quilts. Three days. Four judges. [laughs.]
LR: What was the event?
CH: I don’t even remember what it was called. It was some enormous thing. We just weeded out a lot of them and said, ‘We’ll judge these, we won’t judge these.’ And they weren’t hung and people just turned them back for us to look at. It’s a very unfair way to judge. I don’t even want that talked about. You can run a good show if you’re running it for money, but they also got to squeezing the wrong places occasionally like the judging and the hanging and I will say that I don’t think Houston has ever done that. I think they do a good honest job, but it’s a nightmare job to do and all of these businesses that have cropped up, of course, show at all the shows. That’s the new thing after, let’s say, 1980. There were hardly any businesses between ’75 and ’80 in those early shows. I used to judge a big show out on Long Island [New York.], I mean big for the time, and I can remember when they first had commercial booths and there were lots of loose ends and problems and so forth, and then there are still the little quilt shows. We put on one here in Charlottesville–has a few booths. I don’t think they do terribly well because people go to more well stocked places to buy.
LR: Are you part of a guild or quilting group here?
CH: I’m part of two guilds and I don’t attend very often. I’m part of the greater Charlottesville Guild and the Crozet Guild and I like the Crozet Guild because it is a real down home group and I do demonstrations occasionally for them or something like that and I try to go when I can. They’re a nice group of ladies who really quilt. I mean that’s what they’re there for.
LR: Before we leave the topic of your publications, I know there’s one book that’s still available which is The Quilt Encyclopedia Illustrated. Could you talk just a minute about that book?
CH: Well, I’m very high on that book because Abrams is not only one of the best art publishers in the country, but they were around on the other side of my block where I lived in New York.
LR: Oh– [laughs.]
CH: I lived on West 16th and they were on Fifth Avenue at 15th. So that was kind of fun to work for them because I walked past them all the time and then somebody called me from there and said, ‘We understand you could do a quilt as art book for us’ which is what they really wanted. Not anything about how to quilt but just quilts as art. And so we had by then fifteen years of files of photography that Myron had done and so we went back through them and picked out an enormous number of pieces we thought were worth repeating and then they went through them and picked out what they wanted of that. And there were a few we had to leave out because we had absolutely lost all track of the people in those early shoots we did. We hadn’t kept the names and addresses. The names were in the magazines but we had no idea where to track them down and so we were lucky that we got most of the ones we wanted and a very interesting collection and I did the writing and that was it. And it’s still available. It’s a coffee table book. It’s not a how-to.
LR: You have many definitions of terms that are used in quilting.
CH: Yes, yes, and illustrations of same in the pictures. But it’s color throughout and if you’ve been in the publishing business you know that it’s golden when you get color throughout for a book like this. Because when we were first doing books, the color was in blocks, eight page blocks and you couldn’t move out of that. You could put in two eight-page blocks, but there they were. You couldn’t spread your color through the book.
LR: Talk a minute about something you mentioned. You said, ‘Quilts as art.’
CH: Well, it’s an interesting subject because it goes two ways. Obviously people are creating quilts as art. You look at all the quilt magazines now and you will see hundreds and thousands of art quilts being created. But when you go back the other direction, you will realize that quilts were always art in some way. That people, the women who made them, were creating art and didn’t know what they were doing. They just said, ‘Oh, I like the way these colors look together and this line works and this doesn’t and this needs a border and this doesn’t.’ So it’s definitely art from various standpoints. I’m not sure I like some of the stuff that’s created as art as well as I like the earlier ones that were just, I want to say primitive art, but that isn’t quite the right terminology. This is one of my favorites that is art on purpose.
LR: And this one you’re referring to is in your encyclopedia book?
CH: Yes, and it’s called Hosannah and it was done by Joyce Schlotzhauer on commission for a church. And it’s a, as a matter of fact it’s been up for sale again in the last few years. The church that owned it–I don’t remember–disbanded, something happened, anyhow it’s for sale. And Joyce designed it to hang as a docile in the church for Christmas. And I would love our church to buy it, but they don’t do anything like that [laughs.] They’re all plain white and Williamsburg looking. So there’s no place to hang it, it would be kind of fun for the children. She was a very original quilter, Joyce. She invented something called the curved two patch. Remember?
CH: It was two pieces that you could do a million different things with. I probably have it in there under curved two patch, I’m not sure. But she died a few years ago, much too young.
LR: Yes. Here it is on page 56. [Le opens the Quilt Encyclopedia Illustrated and points to the section on curved two patch designs.]
CH: Yes, that’s it, that’s just one very simple one of her curved two patch. This quilt I own. [Carter points to the picture of an ‘Ocean Waves’ quilt on page 57 of the book.]
LR: And which one is this?
CH: Ocean Waves and it’s set the wrong way so to speak. It’s always set diagonally and this was done down in the mountains of southwest Virginia.
LR: And this is vertical and horizontal?
CH: Yes, it’s a full bed size and it’s got this very thick wadding that they used in the 30’s. It’s very primitive.
LR: Talk a minute about some of the quilts in this Virginia area. I know you have been very interested in.
CH: Oh, well in the Virginia area they run from ones like that [Carter points to the picture of ‘Ocean Waves’ in the book.], the primitive ones made with feed sacks, the 1920’s and 30’s quilts that were made by mountain quilters to these, that are very elegant, like the Baltimore quilts.
LR: Could you describe this?
CH: It’s a very fine Broderie perse appliqué and I think this may be the one that took three generations of a family to finish and that’s not as bad as it sounds because of course women died in their twenties often, so then a younger sister or daughter would pick up the quilt later and work on it again. But they’re very intricate and , as I say, the Baltimore ones are the ones that you’re most familiar with but there are plenty of Virginia ones and South Carolina in that same vein, pictorial and Jacobean, very elegant.
LR: The term “tidewater” [coastal plain region form the Potomac River south to North Carolina.] quilts, what does that mean?
CH: I really have never known. I think Tidewater quilts would be these, the more elegant ones because the mountain quilts are like that earlier one I showed you, they’re pieced and they were made to be used and made to be sold. I can remember when the ladies used to have them hanging out on the clothes line by their house up in the hills here, have four or five quilts hanging out and they were maybe forty, fifty dollars a piece. Pretty well made for that. Tidewater quilts were never for sale.
CH: They were for family. They were to show what elegant embroidery and appliqué a woman could do. Totally different society.
LR: So talk for a minute now then about the trends you see in quilting.
CH: They go in all directions now because not everybody goes along with the very modern artistically designed wall pieces that you see a lot of. There are plenty of people just making quilts and they trade patterns and they trade ideas and they improve upon ideas, and there are lots and lots of block by block quilts being done in groups, you know, where everybody does a block and then you put in a frame and quilt it and then you auction it, raffle it, whatever. So there are a lot of those being done. There’s a lot of everything, good, bad, and indifferent.
LR: I want you to talk a minute about the leftover fabrics that you have and what you do with them.
CH: [laughs.] I think you’re talking about my latest madness with my leftover fabrics. I discovered through my church that there are a lot of children in Central America who have nothing, absolutely nothing. They’ve had floods. They’ve had earthquakes. They’ve had everything that can happen to you. The little kids, until they get sent to school, frequently are virtually not clothed. And it isn’t that warm all the time and it isn’t that comfortable to go around in your bare nothings and so we saw these pictures that Carter Via had at our church and
LR: Who was that?
CH: Carter Via.
LR: How do you spell it?
CH: And so I’ve now dubbed this the two Carters’ program, but he’s a priest who works for the Episcopal Church and who goes back and forth to Central America and has a lot of people who work with him who go. And I called him up and said, ‘What would you think about people making very simple clothes for these children?’ He said, ‘I think it’s a nifty idea and we have plenty of people who can stick them in their suitcases and take them down there so you don’t have to worry with customs and all that.’ So that’s, I’ve got about eight people, who work with me–not all of them every time, we meet every other week and I do a lot of work in between and so does one of the other women.
LR: And what is the work that you’re doing?
CH: We’re doing dresses and shorts for under school. We do size eighteen months to four or five years.
LR: And all from leftover.
CH: Leftovers and I thought I was going to get to rid of my leftovers and instead I’m getting more because people donate leftovers now that they know this is a game. So that’s what I’m doing much more than anything with quilts.
LR: Back to design just a minute. What do you think makes a great quilt? When you’re judging for example? How would you define a great quilt?
CH: Well, when you’re judging, you usually have a breakdown of say twenty-five out of a hundred points, twenty-five for general appearance and design and maybe thirty-five for workmanship and then that breaks down into the putting together of the quilt, pieced or appliquéd and the quilting itself. And then there are a lot of fiddly diddly things like points for the bindings and finishings and whether the quilt hangs straight. If you are judging quilts hung in a show, you usually give points for that. And lots of different things make a great quilt. I mean if we’re talking modern quilts sometimes humor is a great thing in the pictorial quilts of today [Carter’s phone rings and she excuses herself to answer it.] Excuse me. [Le turns off the tape recorder for eight minutes while Carter is on the phone.]
LR: We were talking about design elements and what makes a great quilt.
CH: Well, if you go back to the Baltimore quilts and those–they’re really embroidery designs and they’re very delicate and very intricate and a lot of them tell you more about the person and the time than they appear to. If you had a, oh what should I say, a guide of them that told you why this woman put in all the strange little things she did [Carter’s phone rings again and she excuses herself to answer it.] I’m sorry. This is one of those days. [Le turns off the tape recorder for approximately a half a minute while Carter answers the phone.] I don’t know where we were.
LR: You were talking about design.
CH: The design?
LR: Quilts and you
CH: Design, well quilts are art so they change with the fashions in art and people have thought of some strange and wonderful things in recent years that have worked and some that haven’t. And we have new elements like the Japanese are into quilting and we get pieces of their design ideas working their way in, and one woman whose work I admire a great deal is Hungarian by birth and I see elements of her folk art creeping into her work. And so you know there’s a little bit of everything that gets brought in and people try things that do work and they try things that don’t work. And quilts don’t always need a border. They don’t always need a lot of different things that you think of as being a part of a quilt.
LR: Do you see any influence from foreign countries in this area for example?
CH: No, not here.
LR: Not here?
CH: Not here, but you get it in New York, New Jersey area and California and you get a lot of influence from other places.
CH: Well like Oriental in California and just, you know, whatever people bring with them, their sense of color. There’s been a sort of spate of very dark modern art type quilts that came in from Germany and that area. And I don’t even, you know I can’t even think what I’ve seen in the European exhibitions, but they’re obviously different and their obviously influenced by what’s familiar. There’s quite a lot of quilting in Israel and quite a lot of that is influenced by their feeling of the sun and sand. So that’s about all I know–everybody borrows from everybody else. Let’s put it that way. So I don’t think you can really label anything as being from a certain area any more as you could at one time when people couldn’t move around so much. I mean the Baltimore quilts were Baltimore quilts and that spread out a little and you find a few of them in Delaware and Pennsylvania and whatever, but.
LR: What do you think about the importance of quilts in American life?
CH: Depends upon when you’re talking about. They were important as something brought from Europe at first: the English had their quilts and the Dutch had a different take on it, and all the white quilts came basically from France and were originally the clothing. They weren’t bed covers. They were petticoats and things that were all white. And so the migrations have changed. Of course, the Afro quilts that started in the south here, that feeling has spread and influenced other quilters.
LR: How would you define the Afro quilts?
CH: Usually very strong color and large motifs and often almost cartoon effect of figures, horses, children, birds, everything, but obviously drawn by hand by someone who was not a graduate artist from F.I.T. [Fashion Institute of Technology, New York City.] or some place.
LR: Are there changes in the African-American genre of quilts today, do you see a?
CH: I think you ought to ask Cuesta Benberry or somebody that question because Cuesta is an historian of African quilts, of all quilts, but particularly African. And I really, I don’t understand the likes and dislikes of African quilts. I’ve heard Cuesta and other African people just say, ‘That is a piece of junk.’ You know that somebody is doing something they think they’re making an African quilt and they’re not. So I really don’t know about them.
LR: In what ways do you think quilts have special meaning for women’s history and experience in our country?
CH: Not as much as we’d like to think.
CH: Because women did all kinds of needlework and they made their own clothes and they made all the clothes for everybody in the family. Quilts were a sort of natural outgrowth of that, you wanted something more attractive to cover the bed than a very heavy wool blanket, and also they were in some cases more affordable if there were enough leftovers from everything else that had been done, that was particularly true in the 30’s, I think–20’s and 30’s. People really did scrap quilts and they really used the leftovers. But prior to that–in the 1840’s–they were an art form and they were done by wealthy women who had time to do them. And then the silk quilts of the late 19th century were sort of impossible little confections that were done to throw over the back of the sofa. During that time they weighted all the silk with lead. It not only made the quilts deteriorate, it wasn’t very good for the women wearing the silk either. Imagine taking a bath in lead every day. [laughs.]
LR: Talk a minute about the preservation of quilts.
CH: Again this is something that has almost gotten beyond me because when we first started photographing in the bicentennial year, people who had quilt collections, the grand houses and the historical houses of various kinds and a few museums, had then kind of generally tucked away somewhere or, in the case of the houses, they were thrown on a bed to be admired when people came through the house, in the historical house. They were touchable and we could hang them up anywhere we wanted and photograph them. Recently I went with a group of women to view quilts in a museum and they were brought out carefully by two people, one carrying each end of the quilt which was carefully rolled, and one corner was turned back that we could see and I got a commentary on that trip afterwards from one of the women who said the whole trip was wonderful, except the viewing of those quilts left something to be desired. And I thought so, too. I thought what are we doing with these? Why are we preserving them to this extent that they can’t be seen? Now once in a while I’m sure the museum gets them out and hangs them for a show, if you’re lucky enough to get there. But it’s sad to me that it has become such an art thing and not a part of women’s history, not a reality.
LR: How would you make it a reality for women’s history though?
CH: Well, I would like the quilts that are in museums shown more often. Now even the dear Metropolitan [Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City.] which tends to be kind of precious about a lot of things, has in recent times had one room, smallish room where they have hung quilts and other textiles. They can hang about four or five pieces in it and it’s been dedicated just to that. That’s wonderful because they can rotate their holdings through there and then every so often they have a really “knock-out’ quilt show. We had one funny episode when we were photographing. Most museums were very generous with us and if we gave them enough prior notice they got an extra person in and people took the quilts out and did unfold them and did allow us to photograph them either hung on a stand or sometimes put on beds in the displays in the museums. We had a lot of freedom with them. But we had made an appointment to go to a museum, I think in Wisconsin, and it was supposed to have a very good collection and when we got there we were told that we had to enter through the shipping department where there was a big dock. We scrambled up on this dock with all the cameras and everything, three of us. We lugged everything into the museum, into the storage where we were supposed to see these quilts and choose ones to be photographed. And this nice lady told us what a lovely collection they had and how beautifully they stored them. They had little narrow long drawers where they could fold the quilts about in thirds and then lay them in the drawer and fold them again and she pulled out a drawer about eight inches and said, ‘Now this is such and such quilt, isn’t it beautiful?’ And then she slid that drawer in and then she showed us the next drawer and after a while Myron said, ‘Now where can we photograph these?’ ‘Oh, no they can’t be taken out of the drawers,’ she said. [laughs.] And this puzzled us a great deal. I mean what are they there for? I’m sure once in a while they have a real bang-up display of them. But if you don’t publicize these things in magazines and books, what then? They had no photographs to offer us. We did have the best lunch we’ve had almost anywhere that day in a nearby restaurant.
LR: Our time is just about up so I want to say thank you for allowing me to interview you as part of our Quilters’ S.O.S. – Save Our Stories project and our interview concluded at 11:32 AM.
CH: Thank you.
LR: Thank you.
CH: And now we can see what’s happened in Long Island [a plane crashed that morning taking off from New York City.] [tape ends.]
Carter Houck, Interviewee
Le Rowell, Interviewer
Le Rowell, Transcriber
The Virginia QSOS
November 12, 2001
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